Curse

Šiljo · Dec 02, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain

BTW: just noticed, I passed my 2000 death count in DoA!!!

Its teh ultimate death count farming place!!!1111

SumXone · Dec 02, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahn Roi

I don't like suggestion #6...how is it Challenging?

because monsters are affected by it, too.

MithranArkanere · Dec 02, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durik Lakmor

so because an ELITE mission is too hard for some, most at this very, very early point in the release of it, the entire game is broken?

I don't see how this is true at all, you can't get a Rit Hero? Wait until some viable strategies form, which by the way are already happening and Assassins happen to be needed in some of the areas.

I don't really agree that this is more of the same either.

To those complaining about this not being 12-man like the Deep and Urgoz, those places were difficult at first as well, but there are now 3-man builds for them, 12 really would be overkill in the long run.

This elite missiong is not too hard for some, it's a challenge for the few ones (less than 1% of the players) that complain the game is easy, and nearly impossible for the rest. I don't have 8 hours a day to make elite missions. Their should be so you can make them at least in one hour or half an hor.

The first time I was in Urgoz I could stand the whole area, to the end, I just had to change my build.

How many of you would do PvP battles with half HP, armor, etc...?
Only the braggers, and they'll get wiped out.

What would be next elite mission? One with a 5 second counter after that one random party member dies instantly?

Vahn Roi · Dec 02, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

If you don't have the time to devote to the elite missions, then don't do them. Simple as that.

Amity and Truth · Dec 02, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Well... Texture Quality downright sucks in the elite area (sorry, but did you get those textures from Half-Life 1? Pardon, yes that game is too new, maybe Duke Nukem 3d?)
Aside from that, it's hard, yes but as i posted earlier the good old winter/conflag build works very well there. And well... trappers are back (blast those little griefers, boredom rangers ftl), B/P is back and once things die MMs are back too. It's really not that much of a challenge, most of the old builds still apply and get through easily.

So in short, it's okay for an elite area. Only the textures are laughably bad.

MithranArkanere · Dec 02, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahn Roi

If you don't have the time to devote to the elite missions, then don't do them. Simple as that.

I had, I could make Urgoz, Titans, Furnace, etc...

But this is ridiculous, now I can't even find parties in the area, no one want to try, they have tagged them impossible, there are only people "WTB" those gems.

nSin · Dec 02, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

See here's the thing that I dislike most, we made an extremely balanced group, nothing cookie cutterish, 2 monks, a protection paragon a domination mesmer a ss necro, 1 trapper ranger, ele echo nuker (might have been an SF nuker) and a warrior that was set to tanking with tripple chop and cyclone. We didnt come far at all, killed the first group, then we came in the area with QZ Famine, mass energy denial and the special effect (lose 2 energy every time you lose a spell/attack) in combination with mind wrack.

It's just stupid, a balanced group cannot take that, the people that were playing were more then competent, stayed around, we tried to tweak our builds to make it better but I feel like I'm being forced to do some cookie cutter build like B/P or a 3 man group in order to play here at all.

I refuse to play guildwars if it means that I need to use a preset skillbar in order to do well at all in an area, I can live with being perhaps more effective if I do pick a skillbar/team setup like that, but not like this.

I want to face an area that is just hard, with monsters that use similar skills as we do, that res eachother when they die like a HA team - those fights are hard too, not because the numbers and conditions are rediculous, instead because the opposing team spent time to think out their skills and attributes.

As it looks now, I probably will be skipping this are mostly just like the deep, some farm build will come out and everyone will be requesting certain classes with certain skillbars and nothing else, no creativity. And then to think I like challenging areas and spending hours and hours just to get through an area, even though it's hard.

drekmonger · Dec 02, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

SumXone:

Good suggestions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahn Roi

If you don't have the time to devote to the elite missions, then don't do them. Simple as that.

There's ways to making areas that have challenges for 'leet PvEites while still be playable by more casual players. Ramping rewards for performance, or including challenging quests triggered by accepting a "hard" quest from an NPC for example.

98.23% of the people who play this game are not hardcore 'leet PvE players. Most visitors to Anguish will be either casual players looking for something a little extra to do after completing the main scenario, PvP players snooping around between matches, or non-leet but dedicated PvE players who just don't have the chops for this kind of difficulty. Catering to the 1% is a bad idea, given that GW just doesn't have the quantity of content that (for example) WoW has.

Coran Ironclaw · Dec 02, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

What would be next elite mission? One with a 5 second counter after that one random party member dies instantly?

That would be so funny =p

for all the people.
If you dont enjoy to enter and die, to enter and die. Then this is not the time for you to enter the elite mission.
There are many people that actually enjoy a lot to enter and die this places.

why?

because with every death you have to THINK what to do next time to prevent that death, manage tactic and build until you find a way that wont come in one day. (well maybe for some)

dont you have the time for that? cant you do that? dont you enjoy it?

Then dont simple do the elite mission, at least for now. there wont be long time for complete builds and detailed instrucctions to follow.

Quote:

So basically, you want it kept hard as it is to weed out the hardcore elites from the average, casual players, eh?

The name "Elite mission" means something to you?
At least for initial time, leave it at that way. later everyone will know how to do it as i explained before.

---------------

If there are more complaining than Urgoz or Deep, it is just because the way it was introducted. urgoz and deep were enclosed and didn't have the marketing the current one have.
So many people started doing urgoz and deep, and when all the casual players found the place they already had people to ask about the missions.

Now, all that marketing created a lot of spectation on the casual player which is not the intended market for the initial of an elite mission.

Antheus · Dec 02, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumXone

well, i'm not a game designer, but i'll try anyway.

You just created "Serious Sam".

Mindless slaughter of hundreds of mobs after hundreds of mobs. Skill not required. Unable to die, just keep going until you are at the last boss.

reetkever · Dec 02, 2006, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Èhhh lol why do some people say 'lolz0r the mission is 1337 mission n00bz0r, d0nt c0mplainn!11'

So you're basicly saying that when something is elite, it should be impossible to do for 99.9% of all the normal people?

It's not only elite because it's so hard, it's also elite because you can only go there after beating the game. Seriously, this isn't what I expected with a 'new environment'.

In my eyes, stuff like UW, FoW and Sorrow's Furnace are elite enough. They're hard, and it requires strategy, but is far from impossible. Also, above all, it's fun. Also, since UW/FoW can't be done with hench, it requires real people, and I thought that's what A-net wanted to promote? DoA isn't done by real people, simply because 99.9% of the people gives up.

Ohh, and what's the use of doing a frustrating thing (yes DoA is frustrating, not challenging)? Only reward I can think of is the hero, but I don't really need a Ritualist hero all of a sudden...

cagan · Dec 02, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Its been mentioned before, but worth mentioning again.
Elite missions can be hard, heck, if i never manage to achieve anything in there thats fine, but the rewards shouldn't be anything more then aesthetics, finish the elite area and have better looking weapons and armor then me, thats fine, thats not relevant.
...
But don't deny so many pve'ers a rit hero.

EPO Bot · Dec 02, 2006, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Maybe i try next year with a maxed lightbringer team? If not for the dmg reduction, the combined gazes will make a difference.

Key will probably be to time the castings so the mobs are interrupted all the time. I don't see why this wouldn't work with any party.

Also: Everyone should bring their own damage reducer as well. Just relying on monks to Spirit you is a bit unrealistic.

Bankai · Dec 02, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

I really can't understand all the bitching. First of all. The elite areas won't have to take so long if people finally start to think. I think that with more experience, after time the quests won't be so long and hard at all. Second of all, yes, the damage output is massive. There's a lot of things you can do versus it. Third of all, yes, you do need to make a build for this area. You can't expect to go to some ultimate powerful area filled with the strongest monsters with just your every-day build.

In most groups that did pretty good, we didn't even have that much defense.

Amity and Truth · Dec 02, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

So you're basicly saying that when something is elite, it should be impossible to do for 99.9% of all the normal people?

It's not only elite because it's so hard, it's also elite because you can only go there after beating the game. Seriously, this isn't what I expected with a 'new environment'.

Now, i'd really be interested where you got those figures from. Now seriously, face the truth as hard as it may be to understand. You're not good enough for it (yet). If something is too hard, you really should work on getting better. As you've acknowledged yourself, atleast 1% of Guildwars is good enough to do this mission so what is stopping you from doing it yourself?
Get out there, try, work around, find possible solutions and do as those 1% have done. But please stop using imaginative numbers to back up your argument the mission would be too hard. You've got no way to know for sure how many people actually have allready completed it or progressed. You only see the amount of people who don't and well... of course they're bitter about it.

Now, don't despair, don't cry, don't flame just wait. There are several types of players. The inventors, the builders. Those will naturally be the folks to invent a build with maximum efficiency and they will be the first few to breeze through everything. After a while, their builds leak out and this is when the not so good player gets his hand on builds and makes a Cookie Cutter Build out of it.
Now it's time for them to complete it just as easily.

If you're not part of the elite crowd, all you have to do is wait a bit for them to unveil their builds and information. Than it's your turn. If you don't like it this way, you need to get better.

This isn't impossible at all. It's hard. Yes. So what? It's not a requirement to complete the game. It's not a requirement for anything. It's an option for you to do.
Personally, i'd say those Elitemissions have an increasing difficulty. Sort of like:

1 - Fissure of Woe
2 - Underworld
3 - The Deep
4 - Urgoz Warren
5 - DoA

With 1 being the easiest and 5 being the hardest as of now. Start with the FOW, clear it with your OWN build. Do all quests and you'll be a lot better than before. Go do the Underworld, learn proper aggro, proper tanking and splitting to a degree. Even better after you've done all.
Go to the deep, learn about knockdowns, learn about kiting. Yay.
Head to the Warren, learn about hexes and learn to plan ahead.

It's important for you to use your own builds though. If you're just copying other people's builds you skip on a lot of knowledge right there.

So finally, go to the DoA and apply your knowledge.

carbajac · Dec 02, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solarii

Good lord.... 100 of those stones? I guess Tahlkora had better get used to those rags she's wearin....

So funny and yet, so true.

Lykan · Dec 02, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

This mission spawns two types of players.
Fighters and Failures.

Fighters. Go in and die a hell of a lot, every time they go in they will change their builds and try to get a bit further, eventually once the perfect their builds they will get to the end. They will eventually be getting through wiht no deaths quite easily.

Failures. Go in and die a hell of a lot with no thought to builds, just grabbing random pugs and wondering why they get wiped, probably not even communicating properly. Finally they will just give up and whine on forums
waiting for the Fighters to post their builds.

Pwny Ride · Dec 02, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahn Roi

If you don't have the time to devote to the elite missions, then don't do them. Simple as that.

Its not a matter of devotion its a matter of something called REAL LIFE.
Maybe you should try it sometime...

garethporlest18 · Dec 02, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

You guys figure out a good way to beat 200 dmg touchies with 300 dmg attacks? Don't forget the 100 or whatever it is dmg from Dark Aura, when they use Touch of Agony.

We beat 3 groups of 6, of those guys. The warriors we used traps to blind, same with the 130+ dmg Dervishes. But the last mixed group with 2 touchies, a warrior, a ranger with crip shot and something else took us out. Only 2 more series of groups like that too, awesome. "Can't Touch This!" doesn't stop 6 Touchies with 3 touch skills. They also don't have flesh, so only Burning, Deep Wound, Blind and Cripple affect them condition wise. Hexes of course if you have a multi target hex skill. They kill themselves with Aura/Agony, but kill you as well with 89 damage Vamps and 118 dmg Wallows. My monks were getting hit for 300+ from their attacks, 600+ from warrior attacks. Which you take 50 damage from if you evade. But we figured out how to get past them..it's like 80/20 chance.

City is easy, just needs to be worked around a bit, people have already been beating it.

Foundry, well it's a bit more tough, haven't gotten that far, but I'm sure it's still easier than Stygian (the hardest place).

Next in difficulty, if the quests are ordered in that way is the Raven place. With 50% chance to miss, Faintheartedness and Blurred Vision on top of max degen hexes, slow downs and conditions..it was gg. So once you get to the second part of the quest, only 30 Torments come at once, the first 1-2 groups of 3 don't and you can take them out fine..but the next 6 groups do. Yes I realize that doesn't equal 30. Letting Dervishes/Warriors/Paragons/Rangers/Eles get to soft teammates will spell failure.

City wasn't hard, the groups were small, all you had to do was watch aggro. Well I heard the boss groups are big and hard to pull but the first part isn't to bad. It gets harder as you go on, while I had fun..I'd still like to complete it sometime.

Amity and Truth · Dec 02, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

Its not a matter of devotion its a matter of something called REAL LIFE.
Maybe you should try it sometime...

Now this thread is getting funny, people that can do it are now being insulted. Maybe YOU should try real-life if you can't control your anger and have to reflect it onto others.